Pwing Forum

Home
Guides
Vote

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Why Pwing Is Dead
Vance_Joy
Builder
Posts: 364
Permalink
Post Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 9, 2020, 18:29
Quote

So. as of recently I've been thinking about pwing. No offense but pwing is DEAD in the water. It doesn't seem like staff are listening to players requests on how to make the server better. Me as well as many other players are noticing this and its a FACT that pwing is dead. Here is why:

#1 Population- The population of players controls the server. It controls the money pwing makes, the atmosphere of the server, the quality of the community and etc. The most amount of players that i've seen within the past 3 months is 10 and even that is rare. This also leads to a really low staff team to control the server and improve it. The population also affects the economy. Less items to trade leads to less content the player can play. Which leads to less of community to play.

#2 Raiding - Raiding was one of the main activities I did in my time on pwing. A lot of other players did as well and found it very enjoyable and rewarding. The reason there is a /seen system is to see the status of a player which highlights the time that they've last been active. This was made for raiding. If a player has not been on for two months - a year. It's most likely they aren't going to come back. That was the whole point of the raid system. This also benefits the economy giving more items to produce and more money to be made.

#3 Pvp: Pwing pvp… to many a nostalgic and player endrawing event. The truth is pvp has been slaughtered and neglected. The admins have failed to recognize it and have brushed it away by using the “ pwing is a dungeon server” excuse. Bull shit. At the peak of pwings success half of the players pvped. The pure uniqueness of pwing’s elements of pvp was similar to none. Artifacts have been trashed and ruined. Some of the most crucial artifacts to pwings pvp have been nerfed to shit or dont work . The growth of the server could be exponential if the admins listen to old pvpers who understand the growth of the server. The owner and admins say they know best however the debt of the server is inevitable at this point. It is time for the arrogant admins to admit failure and listen to knowledgeable people who have played the server longer than them and know what they are talking about.

#4 The Reset - The Reset killed the server. Obviously this cannot be undone but it took away many good players that spent a lot of time building and gathering items. But to be honest, we would be a more populated server without the reset ever happening.

#5 The Staff - I'm not sure if it may just be me. But some of the staff (no names given) seem to listen to any of the players. Some staff will straight up ignore you or just not do anything to benefit the community. Red, I don't mean this on any personal level. But I remember one kid asking for help and you said you would help and it took over a day to help him and he still didn't receive help. Red your going to have a lot of time consumed by real life events. As you get older it's only going to get worse. Your to young to run a server and keep up with life. There's staff that me and the public don't seem to do anything on the server for example; Shaur, Bashea, Kevin, Claw, GME. Some which have not been on for more than a month.

#5 Bugs/Glitches: This is another big issue with pwing. There's many bugs and glitches and that's obviously going to be an issue but no one really cares enough to fix them. As mentioned in the pvp section some artifacts just don't even work, and its the same with spells some just don't work or are broken. This isn't necessarily a bug/glitch but why is the heavenly staffs upgraded phoenix, solarflare way worse than phoenix? It doesn't make sense. A long with this there's the huge boss glitch where they spawn minions every hit. This happens way too often and no one cares to fix it. Even doms said no one cares enough to try to fix it. It's awful and it literally lags the server out when it happens. And theres other countless glitches and bugs with the server

Image

Redned
Administrator
Posts: 176
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 9, 2020, 20:01
Quote

I've just took a read through this and would like to clear up some things as well as let you know what I think of these issues and how we intend to address them.

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#1 Population- The population of players controls the server. It controls the money pwing makes, the atmosphere of the server, the quality of the community and etc. The most amount of players that i've seen within the past 3 months is 10 and even that is rare. This also leads to a really low staff team to control the server and improve it. The population also affects the economy. Less items to trade leads to less content the player can play. Which leads to less of community to play.

You hit the nail on the head here. Like all servers, a community is an important aspect in order for it to be successful. More players usually require more staff and less players need less staff. Less people equals less item circulation and trading. If you're basing the success of a server on this solely, you run into the chicken and the egg problem... players bring players, but without them you can't get more. Now having players isn't the only way to bring in more, it's much more complicated than that.

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#2 Raiding - Raiding was one of the main activities I did in my time on pwing. A lot of other players did as well and found it very enjoyable and rewarding. The reason there is a /seen system is to see the status of a player which highlights the time that they've last been active. This was made for raiding. If a player has not been on for two months - a year. It's most likely they aren't going to come back. That was the whole point of the raid system. This also benefits the economy giving more items to produce and more money to be made.

In a way yes, raiding was a pretty large factor of Pwing, but we removed the whole raiding system because it was being abused and pretty much caused more problems at the end of the day. I (or other staff) would unlock 20+ chests for a player, the raiders would go through the chests and take what they saw valuable, then burnt the rest of the loot. Then these players would come back, see that their chests were removed, and never play again. To me, this seems like it'd have a much more negative effect on the community. I'd be open to discussing more on this and perhaps coming up with a compromise.

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#3 Pvp: Pwing pvp… to many a nostalgic and player endrawing event. The truth is pvp has been slaughtered and neglected. The admins have failed to recognize it and have brushed it away by using the “ pwing is a dungeon server” excuse. Bull shit. At the peak of pwings success half of the players pvped. The pure uniqueness of pwing’s elements of pvp was similar to none. Artifacts have been trashed and ruined. Some of the most crucial artifacts to pwings pvp have been nerfed to shit or dont work . The growth of the server could be exponential if the admins listen to old pvpers who understand the growth of the server. The owner and admins say they know best however the debt of the server is inevitable at this point. It is time for the arrogant admins to admit failure and listen to knowledgeable people who have played the server longer than them and know what they are talking about.

This is actually not true at all. I've tried to bring pvp back. We brought back consistent pvp seasons, disabled shard weapons in pvp, and listened to many community requests. What we've concluded at the end of the day is it simply won't work, not only because a lack of players in pvp, but ultimately the way the server has evolved the past few years -- some things in our control and some not. For example, in order for a true pvp server to be successful, it needs to be on 1.8. Problem is, Pwing is on 1.13, and there is no way we can go back. We could try and run it on the latest version, but even then it would be difficult to emulate a true pvp experience.

I would also argue that pvp was only a core gamemode on the server for about a couple years on the server, around 2014 give or take. During it's first year or so, when it had it's first peak of players, pvp was only a side activity that roughly 10% of the community played (source: Kevinthedude). Sure, when pvp was popular, the server was at it's peak, but so was the toxicity. One thing many people fail to acknowledge during this time was how toxic and volatile the community was. This was back during the days when Skype was the prominent platform to speak with other people on, which also gave your IP to anybody you called. This resulted in pvp more of turninginto a battle of who had the best booter. You'd be in the middle of a fight, and someone would DDoS you, causing you to go offline and lose everything. Ultimately, the server was going in a terrible direction at this point.

I have yet to hear about these artifact wands being "trashed and ruined" (I actually buffed kiss of death about a year ago). They have mainly remained unchanged with the exception of fixes so they work across versions. The one I have changed slightly was soulkeeper which appeared to ignore armor (reported as a bug many times over the years).

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#4 The Reset - The Reset killed the server. Obviously this cannot be undone but it took away many good players that spent a lot of time building and gathering items. But to be honest, we would be a more populated server without the reset ever happening.

If the reset never happened, Pwing would likely be in the same place it is today. The reset actually brought in a lot of players during the first few months after it, with the server peaking near 40 players. Many of the old players actually came back because of it.

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#5 The Staff - I'm not sure if it may just be me. But some of the staff (no names given) seem to listen to any of the players. Some staff will straight up ignore you or just not do anything to benefit the community. Red, I don't mean this on any personal level. But I remember one kid asking for help and you said you would help and it took over a day to help him and he still didn't receive help. Red your going to have a lot of time consumed by real life events. As you get older it's only going to get worse. Your to young to run a server and keep up with life. There's staff that me and the public don't seem to do anything on the server for example; Shaur, Bashea, Kevin, Claw, GME. Some which have not been on for more than a month.

There is much more to this than you actually can see on the surface level. Many of us have lives (school, jobs, etc.) and can't spend all day working on the server. Sure, updates have slowed down these past few months, but it's a lot more complicated than saying "we all got busy and have no time" (more on that later). The person specifically who was asking for help unfortunately messaged me at the most inconvenient times for me. Unfortunately it has taken a lot longer than expected for their issue to be resolved, but it has been taken care of.

I would also like to say that there is MUCH more to running a server than you can see. It's a lot more complicated than just throwing plugins in, messing with some options and bam, you got this and that. There is a lot more time that needs to go into these things, and ultimately you run into other things you never thought you would. This races update I've been working on has dragged on a lot farther than I thought it would. Initially I thought I could get it done in a couple months, and here we are now and it's been over six. Again, there is a lot more to this than just configuring. If it was done in a quick and speedy way, it would've been done a few months ago. Advertisement is a key part as well, and you can only get so far with free promotion. Considering everything, Pwing isn't yet at a state where it can be heavily advertised as it simply won't retain many players in it's current state.

Quote from Vance_Joy on February 9, 2020, 18:29
#5 Bugs/Glitches: This is another big issue with pwing. There's many bugs and glitches and that's obviously going to be an issue but no one really cares enough to fix them. As mentioned in the pvp section some artifacts just don't even work, and its the same with spells some just don't work or are broken. This isn't necessarily a bug/glitch but why is the heavenly staffs upgraded phoenix, solarflare way worse than phoenix? It doesn't make sense. A long with this there's the huge boss glitch where they spawn minions every hit. This happens way too often and no one cares to fix it. Even doms said no one cares enough to try to fix it. It's awful and it literally lags the server out when it happens. And theres other countless glitches and bugs with the server

Yes, there are quite a few bugs in places that we are aware of and that are currently being worked on. Now, coming back to what I said earlier, there has been an obvious decline in updates and part of that is due to the substantial content coming in the races update. There are many factors that intertwine and ultimately this has resulted in us having to do a near partial rewrite of the majority of our core plugins. Races interact with a considerable amount of the server (magic, bosses, attributes, armor, weapons, etc.) and has required us to do these things. Unfortunately, we're quite limited with content at this point, and in retrospect this probably should have been done differently (the core plugins are already complete). Measures will be taken in the future to prevent this from happening, but hopefully it makes more sense why some of these things have not yet been fixed or have taken longer than expected. This is the very reason why the server at it's current state cannot be monetized all too well and retain players.

Lots of these things we've addressed and taken care of, namely solarflare. It was initially not as good as phoenix, but has since been upgraded (more than once) to compete with phoenix. Damage-wise, it should do a lot more damage, but it's a much different spell than phoenix which may lead to some people preferring phoenix over it or vice versa. It's not just black and white.

Now, one thing that many people don't understand (not saying this is you) is that there is not a magical feature that brings in a ton of players immediately. I can guarantee that if these issues or suggestions were put as-is into the server or the server was ran this exact way, there wouldn't be a sudden boost of players that immediately brought back the server. Sure, it may bring in more, but give it a month or two and they'll be gone as well.

In conclusion, there is a lot more to running a server than what you just see on the surface level. Much more time and consideration is put into Pwing than is immediately visible. Now, I'm not calling anything you said bad or invalid, but hopefully I cleared up some misunderstandings and gave some valuable insight about what's been going on.

mrbearblue
Builder
Posts: 440
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 11, 2020, 02:38
Quote

I'd like to start off by saying I think that overall red is doing good as the owner, and easily has done the most/best with pwing since ~2016. I think the most important topic this post brings up is the removal of raiding, which I think red's removal for removing it is convoluted and over thought.

To begin with, the situation with the group of raiders who would burn loot was absolutely mishandled, and I don't think its because anyone on the staff team had ill intentions, but because it was just over thought. Either dont unlock chests for players who have burned unwanted loot or have a staff member supervise the raider. I think the key here is for the staff member to use their common sense when deciding whether the player is fit or unfit to raid - hell, if you need to just make a list in the staff forums or pinned in the staff chat that has all of the players who are prohibited from chest unlocks.

I also think the "returning players will see their items are gone and just quit" reason is bs. What I understand from what I've been told is that currently, if a mayor needs chests removed to clear out a plot, those chests are moved to a different world where they are stored until the player returns. I dont know if the house is saved as well, but assuming it isnt, if I was a returning player I would be just as discouraged to play if I had my items but my house was gone. Assuming the house is saved (honestly this argument works for the house not being saved too), why are we catering to inactive players? It seems incredibly unfair that players who chose to stop playing can always get their items back, however players from the old map who dedicated much more time lose their items, and only get to see them if they knew about the museum, and even if they did, plenty misunderstood the concept and only put in certain items, and others had items not included for what seems to be no reason. This argument is my only issue with the reset currently (I'm fine with the reset, I just think people justify it for the wrong reasons), it seems like players now who go inactive are cared about more than players who were much more dedicated- and you cant deny many people quit or became significantly less active due to the reset.

Also I would like to add - from what I've been told, 40 players concurrently on after the reset is to be attributed to the release of the abyss dungeon, not the reset itself. You would probably reach similar numbers if the abyss dungeon was released but there was never a reset. Not trying to say the reset was bad, just showing you're giving it too much credit.

TL;DR: bring back raiding, "work smarter not harder" as in dont punish the whole player base for certain peoples actions, just disallow the ones who are scummy when they raid. Also I forgot to mention this earlier but bringing back raiding would probably help the economy

Image

Redned
Administrator
Posts: 176
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 11, 2020, 09:27
Quote

Quote from mrbearblue on February 11, 2020, 02:38
I'd like to start off by saying I think that overall red is doing good as the owner, and easily has done the most/best with pwing since ~2016. I think the most important topic this post brings up is the removal of raiding, which I think red's removal for removing it is convoluted and over thought.

To begin with, the situation with the group of raiders who would burn loot was absolutely mishandled, and I don't think its because anyone on the staff team had ill intentions, but because it was just over thought. Either dont unlock chests for players who have burned unwanted loot or have a staff member supervise the raider. I think the key here is for the staff member to use their common sense when deciding whether the player is fit or unfit to raid - hell, if you need to just make a list in the staff forums or pinned in the staff chat that has all of the players who are prohibited from chest unlocks.

I also think the "returning players will see their items are gone and just quit" reason is bs. What I understand from what I've been told is that currently, if a mayor needs chests removed to clear out a plot, those chests are moved to a different world where they are stored until the player returns. I dont know if the house is saved as well, but assuming it isnt, if I was a returning player I would be just as discouraged to play if I had my items but my house was gone. Assuming the house is saved (honestly this argument works for the house not being saved too), why are we catering to inactive players? It seems incredibly unfair that players who chose to stop playing can always get their items back, however players from the old map who dedicated much more time lose their items, and only get to see them if they knew about the museum, and even if they did, plenty misunderstood the concept and only put in certain items, and others had items not included for what seems to be no reason. This argument is my only issue with the reset currently (I'm fine with the reset, I just think people justify it for the wrong reasons), it seems like players now who go inactive are cared about more than players who were much more dedicated- and you cant deny many people quit or became significantly less active due to the reset.

Also I would like to add - from what I've been told, 40 players concurrently on after the reset is to be attributed to the release of the abyss dungeon, not the reset itself. You would probably reach similar numbers if the abyss dungeon was released but there was never a reset. Not trying to say the reset was bad, just showing you're giving it too much credit.

TL;DR: bring back raiding, "work smarter not harder" as in dont punish the whole player base for certain peoples actions, just disallow the ones who are scummy when they raid. Also I forgot to mention this earlier but bringing back raiding would probably help the economy

As I said in reply to Bran, I’d be open to coming up with a better solution.

Quote from mrbearblue on February 11, 2020, 02:38
Also I would like to add - from what I've been told, 40 players concurrently on after the reset is to be attributed to the release of the abyss dungeon, not the reset itself. You would probably reach similar numbers if the abyss dungeon was released but there was never a reset. Not trying to say the reset was bad, just showing you're giving it too much credit.

We reached 40 players during the month of July 2018. The desolation dungeon was released in February of the next year - nearly seven months later.

mrbearblue
Builder
Posts: 440
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 11, 2020, 13:45
Quote

Yeah I was giving a few of my ideas. Most players probably agree it's the worst rule.

Image

Redned
Administrator
Posts: 176
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 11, 2020, 19:40
Quote

Quote from mrbearblue on February 11, 2020, 13:45
Yeah I was giving a few of my ideas. Most players probably agree it's the worst rule.

At the time of the removal, there was quite a popular demand to remove it.

katesdogs
Miner
Posts: 60
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 12, 2020, 00:10
Quote

I guess I'll put my two cents in here as well, even if it won't be important, but:
I think there's no way that pwing will ever return to its golden age when me, chewits, double, bear, desmond, james, faz, gamer, will, and much much more. actively played. There's no way to ever get those summer and late night sessions back. I feel like I can speak for a lot of people when I say that some of the best parts of my life were spent with people I've met from this server, even if we've yet to have a true, real-life connection. Sometimes people leave groups, and you don't see them again, and sometimes they return and you're still happy to see them. So to be blunt, we're never going to be able to get 'our' familiar pwing back, BUT, I feel like there's ways to integrate some of the nostalgia back in.

As a passive, towny/faction/building (not much raiding, questing, or pvping done by me:-) player, I had a lot of connection to my items and builds, therefore resets and gitches were/are the bane of my existence! I had a lot of my old items taken from me that, truthfully, made my time on pwing less fun. As silly as it may sound, some of those builds and items were personal memories to me - items from friends who no longer played, or builds with friends who no longer played, inside jokes, bonding sessions, etc. It's difficult because it feels as though you're loosing those memories. I'm not familiar with computers, or running servers so my solutions to these issues won't be as in depth as possible. I don't think resets are entirely helpful to the morale of the players, and I think resetting the server does more harm than good. I recognize the fact that it may have more deeper meaning but from a player's viewpoint it's really unenjoyable. Glitches are inevitable, but, if we had active staff members, glitch solving would be more efficient.

As a previous staff member on pwing, I will be the first to say that it's not too difficult to find people who generally want to help the server (you can even see this here, as me and a few of my friends and veterans are trying to help!) I think if we had a more active and experienced staff crew, pwing would benefit substantially. Unfortunately, the mistreatment of veterans & experienced players, loss of items/builds, etc. have caused a distinct disinterest in staffing and supporting the server (as there really isn't much to support 🙁 ). I think if Red were able to reassign positions and require staff members to be active 2-3 times per month (could change depending on population) the prevention of glitches that harm the population would improve, and people would be more inclined to join when players are on.

I don't know how credible this part of my response will be since I don't know too much about it, but I'd still like to address it. Skyblock. I actually found this server when the OG sky block was running. Reintroducing it was such a cool move! I enjoyed it up until everything got reset (huh interesting correlation) and then loss motivation to restart everything again. I don't know how much monetary value sky block has and how much it cost/costed to run, but it may be worth it to relocate the money if it's no longer in use. (Again, I'm not entirely caught up on this, forgive me if it's old news 🙂 )

Finally, pvp. Lord, pvp was iconic on this server, not even going to lie. I remember going in /v to watch matches between my buddies. It was so much fun. I think if pvp elements were fixed, some players would come back. My one solution I'm confident in is if we had a "veterans tournament". I think it'd be cool to have a little reunion via this and possibly bring back some old players for good. The reward could be possibly an old rare item or new super rare item? I'm not sure, but I still think it'd be fun!! #Fazaxeglitch 😉

All in all, thank you for continuing the server Red. I know it's difficult to maintain this and be in charge of this especially at your age, but I think secretly the old players do thank you for it. I hope everything can be resolved and hopefully the server can grow in population and popularity again.
Kates

Redned
Administrator
Posts: 176
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 12, 2020, 20:47
Quote

It's sometimes a difficult challenge when it comes to keeping certain nostalgic factors of the server or removing them in order for something else more fitting for the times to go in its place. I really hate having to get rid of some of the more nostalgic parts of the server, but as you've said, Pwing likely won't return back to it's "golden age" considering the current Minecraft ecosystem. Now, I'm not saying that I don't think Pwing will be successful again, but rather that there will need to be a good amount of change in order for it to happen, as well as some sacrifices. Though, consider none of this truly "gone" as I still have all of this on old save files and can possibly host nostalgia nights every so often where I open up old areas for people to visit.

At the end of the day, it's important to me that Pwing retains much of what makes it special and the nostalgic parts. Of course, as I've already explained, keeping everything won't do, but whether it be a small easter egg in a dungeon, or a whole build altogether, keeping what makes Pwing special is something I'd never dream of getting rid of.

As for some other parts you mentioned (veterans tournaments and such), I'd love to be able to add in some of these ideas, but unfortunately, it doesn't always work as easily as that. I've tried to bring back pvp seasons and other nostalgic events such as towny wars, but it unfortunately boils back down to the whole lack of players situation. I'm sure these all could have been successful if there was a larger playerbase, but I've learned that chasing things like this at this time unfortunately is not a viable goal. My main focus right now is finding ways to bring up the player count and improve the server in ways that do that, and then focusing on tournaments, pvp leaderboards and towny wars will help retain a higher number. Bringing up the number is one thing, but keeping that number high is another.

And yes.. good ol' Skyblock. It's currently in maintenance and being worked on and something we definitely intend to bring back with some pretty large improvements.

As for the staffing situation, we're currently at a point where we really don't need very many more staff (especially considering the current population of the server). We anticipate however that after the races update, we'll be able to bring back some players (as well as bring in new ones) since this is a significant content update. We'll likely need a few new staff members then, so if you have some people in mind you believe will make great staff members, let me know :).

Overall, thanks for chiming in and giving your suggestions/thoughts 😀 .

finder17
Administrator
Posts: 58
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: February 13, 2020, 15:41
Quote

When it comes to skyblocks funds, those are entirely considered a private donation by myself. I allocate those appropriately to skyblock as it is money out of my own wallet. I do not intend to ever just invest in pwing directly with the amount of money, I spend on the skyblock server. I do it for fun, the whole concept of skyblock is to function as a place for players who've burnt out on pwing. A place to relax and hang out. This iteration this final iteration (not going to end it or anything like that) is designed to be ever expansive. So resets will be mostly a thing of the past. Aslong as Minecraft doesn't for whatever reason do some foundational changes between versions requiring a reset.

Tara81
Administrator
Posts: 4475
Permalink
Post Re: Why Pwing Is Dead
on: April 29, 2020, 03:34
Quote

Quote from Redned on February 9, 2020, 20:01

I have yet to hear about these artifact wands being "trashed and ruined" (I actually buffed kiss of death about a year ago).

[

I nerfed Kiss of death and another artifact that did similiar because at the time all people did was just use those two artifacts to pvp and not engage in anything else. (It was too overpowered - healed user for 3 hearts each time). No one was using their swords or weapons. But other then that, I did not change much with the artifacts once they were made.

Running a server is a lot of work, especially when you need to add updates. Just fixing bugs can be a huge hassle, at least it was for me, a person who could not program and could only configurate. I had to make work arounds instead of fixing actual code.

But I am glad I had a lot of fun creating this server, I hope you guys have as much fun on it as I did creating it. It just takes so many hours to create the small things you see in game, a server this huge really needs like 10 administrators working on it daily to give you content every single week/month. It's just not that easy for 1 person , unless that 1 person spends their entire life working on it.

Image

Pages: [1]
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.34 ; Page loaded in: 0.181 seconds.